Tom Renney 0:00

Pete, uh, thanks very much for taking the time. I I do appreciate it. I'm kind of new to this podcasting LinkedIn social media thing, and I'm I I hope I don't get too good at it because I might even uh do more than I should. Uh but I do appreciate the time, Pete, and it's good to see you again.

Peter DeBoer 0:15

You too, Tom. And and I think you were born to do this. I think you're not going to be just good at it.

Tom Renney 0:20

You're you might have another career, unfortunately, for you. Yeah, maybe I I'm not sure what that is, but that there'll be some people who will suggest otherwise. So you're off to the island. And um that's exciting. Right off the bat, Pete, I'm kind of wondering at what point in time did you think to yourself, you know what, because I know you've got your, you know, your legal background and whatnot, and then education therein, and we're set and ready to go. I don't even know if you were practicing it yet, but what made you say, I'm going to coach?

Peter DeBoer 0:49

Wow, great question. It's a really interesting story on how life just kind of takes your places and and throws things in front of you that kind of hit you on the side of the head and go, you know, this is this is something that I like. I was a junior hockey player. I got drafted by the Leafs. I got traded to the Vancouver Canucks my overage year in junior, got signed, went to the IHL at the time, which was Vancouver's American League version uh of their farm team, uh the IHL, and uh, you know, had two and a half pretty good years in in the minors. I mean, I was an assistant captain on their American League team, uh, had a good year. My contract was up. Pat Quinn was the coach and GM and Berkey, Brian Burke was the assistant GM. And I remember at the time, I was a junior hockey player, but I was doing my contract negotiation, and all these guys signing out of colleges were making more than the junior guys that were coming out of junior. I I think my salary in the minors was 27-5 at the time, and I had had a pretty good year. And, you know, I had these college guys sitting next to me in the room who weren't doing half what I was doing statistically and were making 10 grand more. So, you know, I kind of played hardball with Berkey in in the contract negotiation. It was my first lesson in hockey negotiations. Berkey said, okay, see you later. And that was the end of my NHL career, it really was. I mean, at the time it was like, you know, so I pivoted, and uh the GM of Milwaukee at the time was a guy named Phil Whitliff, and he he offered to sign me to an American League deal. Just wouldn't have been an NHL deal because Berkey and I have pissed each other off so much.

Tom Renney 2:32

So it's really burst.

Peter DeBoer 2:34

Yeah, right. I that's a long list of guys there. And I love Berkey today. We laugh about it today, but uh uh, you know, it was it was a great lesson in not knowing your value before you go into a negotiation and not overplaying your hand and and not worrying about what other people get. Just, you know, I was happy playing, and you know, I should have just, you know, but anyway, so uh I had an offer to go back on an American League deal. Uh at the same time, a guy named Pat Dusharm, who was a huge agent in the hockey world, represented Bob Probert, who was also one of the best criminal defense lawyers in Canada. I was taking a class in the summer and he was my criminal law prof. And we talk hockey all the time, obviously. And and he said, Why don't you throw your name in in at the law school? He goes, I'm on the board, uh, the entrance board. And he goes, You never know. And uh, so I did. And uh I was still planning on playing, and I got a call in like July, about a month before training camp, and they said, You're on the wait list at the University of Windsor for law school. Wow. And uh I couldn't believe it. And I and I thought, okay, wow, I'm not gonna get in. And then I got a call like a week later saying, There is a spot, people have dropped out, but you've got 48 hours, you got to accept it, or we're going to the next person. And uh it was one of those crossroads moments where you know it wasn't a slow end to my hockey career, it was like a a fist against against your nose, and and I had to make that decision. And uh I I at that time I was smart enough to know I was a minor league player. I read the room, I wasn't gonna play in the NHL. They had just opened the doors to all the Russians and everybody coming over, and and there was a whole nother pool of players that were entering the NHL. Uh, so it was an easy decision hockey-wise, it wasn't an easy decision emotionally, but I took the spot and uh moved back in with uh an old teammate of mine, my old captain in junior hockey, Paul Maurice, who was coaching uh junior hockey at the time, had retired because of an eye injury and was was now the head coach of the Detroit Junior Red Wings in the OHL. So I moved in back in with Mo. We had played together for years, and I was gonna go to law school. And um, he couldn't get an assistant coach. And I don't remember the exact reason. It was it was we were into July or August already, junior hockey was starting. There might have been a uh an issue, you know, with visas and things like that. But anyway, he he did couldn't get an assistant coach. So he said to me, Why don't you come help me out? Jimmy Rutherford was our GM or president uh there. And uh they said, Come over, help us out. And when we find a guy, you know, you're good. So I started helping him out, and it was a two-man show. It was me and Paul on the bench. We did everything. That's great. Um, and you know, you coach junior hockey. I mean, uh, you do everything. I mean, you're you're booking buses, you're grabbing the team meals, you're you know, you're booking ice, you're paying the Zamboni driver. It was, I mean, that was you were all in on everything, and uh it was fabulous. I absolutely fell in love with the job. And I did it while I was going to law school, right? Um, which, you know, I can tell you my marks reflected that, but I I squeaked through, you know, I found a way, and and people asked me, what'd you make? And it's funny, I didn't even get paid. Jimmy paid my tuition. Oh, yeah. Uh like that that was my pay as a number one assistant coach in the OHL at the time, uh, to Paul Maurice. So love it. Uh yeah, crazy story. Graduated from law school the same month, I had a job lined up at a law firm, and Jimmy Rutherford and Pete Carmenis had bought the Hartford Whalers that summer. And uh Jimmy went to Hartford as GM, right? And he wanted to take Paul as an assistant coach to Hartford. Paul was 27, I was 26 at the time. And uh Paul took the job, went to Hartford as assistant coach. So the same uh month I graduated, had the job lined up at a law firm. Paul left for Hartford, the coach GM job opened up, they offered it to me, and I I stepped into Paul's seats there and uh and was Coach GM in Plymouth and Kitchener in the OHL for the next 15 years. Yeah, yeah.

Tom Renney 6:49

It boggled my mind how long how long you had coached in junior. Um it just seemed like every time we went into Kitchener, you you were there, and I'm thinking, this guy's gotta be pretty good because he just wins. And so my next question to this, and that's that's great connection with with Mo and and the game and Pat and Berkey, of course, and and uh things are going through my mind right now. When did you think you were a good coach? You're probably saying, Well, I'm still a work in progress, yeah. That's how humble you are, but I'm curious, yeah, Pete, because I there has to be a time when you say, you know what, I'm good enough to make a career out of this, and we're gonna we're gonna do that. You have to have that level of confidence, don't you?

Peter DeBoer 7:27

Yeah, you you do, but there's always that that internal, you know, what do they call it in the business world, imposter syndrome. Yeah. You know, that you always have that little thing inside going, I'm you know, is uh am I really, you know, do I really belong here in this room? You know? Uh and I, you know, I've had we've all had that a few times. And uh when I realized I was pretty good at it, honestly, Tom, was was when the players I had coached started coming back to me, had moved on to pro after they played for me in junior and come back and said, you know what, you guys are doing everything and more than they're doing at that level in this dressing room and that meeting. I needed that reinforcement because I never played in the NHL. I was a minor league player. Right. You know, I and we all feel like the NHL is this unattainable kind of level. Yeah. So I I was never sure, but that that that was probably when I started getting multiple guys that had played for me come back and go, listen, you guys are doing everything they're doing. That kind of gave me a lot of confidence that uh that I could potentially do that.

Tom Renney 8:29

My story to that was uh in Camloops, Daryl Sador and Scott Niedermeyer got reassigned to us from their NHL teams. And I thought, okay, we're we're gonna be pretty good here. It's like Christmas, yeah. No, even my deckmates. Like that's interesting. So so with that then, and then moving into the National Hockey League, I'm sure there's a lot of people that, you know, if they give this an opportunity and a good listen, there's this thing about the former player uh being able to coach in the NHL and and ha just having the wherewithal, you know, and having lived that life and and uh you know, just even from a sort of a subconscious perspective, just know how it works. Did you feel that you had a lot to learn? Did you feel that maybe you had to earn your stripes, um, even though you played in the minors and you had a good, you know, a good junior career, um a college career? I I'm just curious, you know, was there a point in time where you thought to yourself, this can be a tough nut to crack? You know, I I'm not an ex NHL player. And do you have any feelings towards that?

Peter DeBoer 9:27

Yeah. Oh, for sure, for sure I did. And and it was one of the reasons I stayed in junior as long as I did. Because I hadn't played at the NHL level, I wanted to be over-prepared before I took that step. And I also had a fantastic situation in junior hockey that I loved. I loved coaching junior hockey. I loved that age group. I loved the difference you can make with kids that age. So I wasn't in a rush to jump into pro hockey at the first opportunity, and and I really stayed probably, you know, five or six years longer in junior than maybe people told me I should have. But it was the best decision I ever made. And I walked into an NHL dressing room for the first time. You know, I was the youngest coach in the NHL in Florida the year of my first job, and I was 40 years old, and I was drinking through a fire hose. I mean, I didn't know charters, I didn't know what doors to go into in the ranks, I didn't know, I I mean, I didn't know anything. And thank God I had I inherited a fantastic veteran coach in Mike Kitchen, who had been a head coach in St. Louis, yeah, had been an assistant for years in Toronto, had been a lifetime NHL player. I mean, he had spent his life in the NHL. And you know, if Kitch wasn't on that staff, you know, I'm not sure I would have lasted 12 months, but uh he dragged me around and showed me where to go and gave me some great advice. But but you know what? I I made a lot of mistakes too. You know, you're coming out of junior hockey junior hockey's a dictatorship at that time. I mean, you you were responsible for those kids 24 hours a day. Yeah, uh you had to make sure they were in school, you had to make sure they weren't messing up with their their host family billet house. You you know, they had girlfriend problems. I mean, it was it was a full-time babysitting job. And when you got to the NHL, you know, I I still had a little bit of that dictatorship in me because I'd I'd been doing it that way for 15 years, and I learned pretty quickly. I remember in training camp, you know, I got the Florida job, uh, they had missed the playoffs, and it hadn't been a very good team. Obviously, that's why a young coach gets a job in the league. So you're going into a tough situation. But my captain was Brian McCabe at the time, it was who was great. And uh I remember I I ran a ball bust in training camp. I mean, we we went at it, and every day another veteran would, you know, pull a groin, pull a hip flexor. By by the fourth day, we were almost out of bodies, and and caber came up to me at the end of that first year. Yeah, so he didn't say anything at all during the camp. And at the end of that first year, you know, we're having our exit meeting. He said, uh, you know, I think next year maybe you want to take your foot off the gas and training camp a little bit. And I said, Yeah, point taken. I'm not sure how many of those guys were actually hurt. They that was their messaging to me. Hey, you know what, this isn't gonna work.

Tom Renney 12:16

Yeah, you know, I know the name of that song, yeah. It's uh it's interesting. Just my first job was in Vancouver, and uh, we had a pretty veteran team because they'd only two years earlier had gone to the finals with the Rangers and hell of a final, as you well know. And and uh and so I came in and and uh Ricky Lee was coaching and and I repay replaced Ricky. And this is gonna sound so Pat Quinn, Pete. You know that's he said to me, Tom, he says, I got an idea. He said, Why don't I give you a four-year contract? And he said, I'll be the head coach for the year, you be my associate coach, and then you take over after that, and um, you know, away we go. And I said to him, Pat, I I think I'm ready. You know, I I really do, and I appreciate that. I know I've got you to lean on whenever I need it, and that's the kind of guy Pat was. And he said, Well, okay, yeah, you know, I don't disagree with you. He said, I'm just you know, I'm thinking about the long play here. And I said, Yeah, no, I think I'm ready. And 101 games later, I was gone. Pat was a very wise man, wasn't he? He was a really wise man. Yeah. That vintage of manager, general manager, hockey leaders is just so unique, and you just love him, you know. And and yeah, Pat was so good and he he took the bullet for me, you know. And I was so embarrassed and humiliated and shameful because of his career, the type of man he was, what he valued, what was what were important to him, and I and I lasted whatever two weeks longer than he did, and I was so humiliated that I I really think I cost him his job because all he had to do was say, yeah, you're done. Yeah. But that's not Pat. And it's just you know, I marvel at the man. I and there's others along those lines. And is there anybody else besides Kitsch and a great example? And your your assistant coaches are so so so important. But is there anybody else that kind of emerges for you as being a real difference maker in the genesis of your career, not just in hockey, but even like growing up and being a husband.

Peter DeBoer 14:07

Yeah. All that stuff. Yeah, well, you know, at the NHL level, I'll tell you what, I you know, I lasted in Florida three years. The first year was the best year, and then the next two, we bottomed out. I had three different ownership situations over those three years, three different GMs. Uh, it was a really unstable environment. And and you know what, I was in looking in the mirror, I was a young, inexperienced coach, and I didn't do a good enough job either. So I, you know, I ended up getting fired after my third year, and I was sitting at home, and so you, you know, I've tried the NHL now. I flamed out after three years. Uh I didn't have a lot of things to hang my hat on in those three years. I mean, we played hard, I thought, you know, but we didn't win a lot of games. Right. I I wasn't sure I was gonna get another job. And uh uh I was sitting at my cottage that summer wondering what was next. Do I doing do I take a step back here, go back to junior hockey again? And uh I got one call that summer, and it was from Lou Lamarillo. And um I went into New Jersey, and I'll tell you what, you know, long story short, I got the Jersey job. We went to the Stanley Cup final the first year, and and that kind of got me established in the league. Yeah, but more importantly than that, Lou provided the structure a young coach needed. I needed Lou. You know, that's what I needed at that point in my career. I needed a GM that took care of everything and just let me coach because I was coming out of a situation where I didn't have any stability. And, you know, I was doing a lot of that stuff, and I was in way way out of my depth. So, you know, it was just one of those things where where life, you know, the one call I got from was from exactly the type of guy that I needed to work under at that point in my career in order to to get myself refocused on on what I did best, which was coach. And uh he was really influential that way. And you know, I had a hundred Lou stories but uh about them. And I just had uh coffee with him in Long Island. It's amazing how the hockey world, you know, collides again, but uh we reconnected there. Yeah, but uh it was he was fabulous to work for. But along with people with that, when I took the job in New Jersey, Lou said, You're not gonna be able to hire your own staff. I have some guys already under contract, and I wasn't in a position to argue. Uh so I walked in. And at that time, Tom, you remember everybody wanted their own guys. Like you wanted you wanted to feel like you could bring your own people in. So it was the first time actually in my career, you know, other than Kitch in Florida, where I where I didn't get to bring in my own people. And uh I walked in a New Jersey dressing room, it was Larry Robinson and Adam Oates were the who were the assistant coaches. And yeah, and I you know what, and again, two guys like couldn't have been better for me for where I was at. And it actually really taught me the importance of hiring your assistant coaches. You know, you can't just hire friends, you you've got to hire people that are gonna make you better. You bet, you know, that are gonna challenge you. You can't you can't worry about job security, whether the guy's looking to take your job. You gotta hire the best people. And yeah, you know, between Lou and Larry and Oatesy, you know, I I just fell into a fabulous situation.

Tom Renney 17:22

All three legendary at the same time. And yeah, there's a perception of Lou, but he was a humble man, like he, but he knew what he wanted. And there was no messing around. That was that, but he was an extremely humble guy, or is an extremely humble guy. And the other two, same thing. Yeah, that's beautiful. When they're not worried about their jobs, they don't want your job. They just want to make the best of this moment uh, you know, together. And I and I I really like that. That's such a poignant statement, Pete. And I wonder you guys had a couple go-arounds. I was fired twice and wasn't re-signed a third time. And my first one, Vancouver, really hurt. It really hurt. I'd never been fired before in my life, and and uh I I I can remember going through it, Peter. I I went through relief because I'd been reading about it and all that kind of stuff, and uh finally the I'm thinking, oh crap, thanks, I can sleep tonight. Then I was mad uh because I I started to figure out all the wonderful things that I'd done. And then I got introspective and that brought huge perspective, and then I realized where I'd messed up. I didn't understand the NHL player at that time. I'd coached in the Olympics, I'd done stuff, and you know, everything was going good. Uh but I did not understand the NHL player. And so like the guys you're talking about, Glenn Hannon and Stanchmiel, good good guys for sure, and teammates all the way. But I'm I'm thinking about we're talking about Hall of Famers that you worked with. And I think just the just the ability, you know, to kind of w put myself through that, and I know having you know been down that road a couple of times yourself, finally I got introspective, and then I thought, and it was like like the clouds just disappeared. And I thought, okay, Tom, grow up. This is life, this is gonna happen. I did a thing for Hockey Canada, I spoke at an event in Saskat in the University of Saskatchewan, and I talked about how to build a successful program. And you know, as you would know after some of those events, they would, you know, you get a little bit of a rating on how the audience thought you performed, both in content and you know, just whole distribution of the information. And I got fives across the board, and then I had one left, and it was a one. And and the note to I know to this day who it was, and I thank him for it. But he said, Tom has not gotten over Vancouver yet, and he better do this real quick. And he was spot on. And I thought I had emerged and everything was cool, and I'd gone back to Hockey Canada, and he said that, and it talked about a punch in the nose, but it was exactly what I needed. Anything like that, your experience through you know, losing a job and stuff, Peter, what what's your take on losing a job? Yeah.

Peter DeBoer 19:44

How do you deal with it? Listen, it's it's core shattering when you because you know, as a coach in the NHL, I mean, you go all in on these jobs. I mean, it it it's all consuming. It's 24 hours a day. People say you you get a break in the summer, and honestly, you know, by time you slow down your mind and your body from a season, you know, you've maybe got a couple weeks and you're firing back up again for the next year. So there it's really a relentless pace at the NHL level. So when you're not successful, it's core shattering. And the hardest part for me was always my family. I mean, I I got to the NHL as a 40-year-old coach. My kids at that time that I moved to Florida for my first job were I think they were seven, six, and four. Um, so their their entire life has been, you know, on the NHL trail with me. Yeah. And as tough as it was on me getting fired, it was always tougher on my kids. Prior to getting fired, they heard all the stuff at school. Your kids playing hockey, they hear all the cat calls on the ice, some guys on the other teams. Yep. It's really tough on families, you know, when you go through that. My daughter still has a hit list of of reporters and people in cities that I've been in. That God God hope they never that she never catches up with them somewhere.

Tom Renney 21:12

That's that's great. That's excellent. So now with that said, I I'm wondering, it might have been Kitchener, who knows? Yeah, it might have been in an even at school. I I'm gonna go to culture and environment. And um, Pete, do you recall, because you've had great NHL success, what are kind of the common denominators of a good, strong culture that is measured by performance? That's the job you're in, you know, and it's up at the scoreboard every night. But what were the common denominators in a strong culture for your teams that just kept winning?

Peter DeBoer 21:42

Yeah. Well, I I I will tell you, and I'm I'm gonna give you a uh a credit here. The best thing I ever did in my coaching career was get involved with the Hockey Canada program. You know, I started at the under eighteens.

Tom Renney 21:54

Yeah.

Peter DeBoer 21:55

Uh, and on that first under eighteen team, Joe Thornton and Patty Marlowe were 17 years old. Old, so think about how long ago that was. Um, but you know, I under 18, a couple world juniors, and even more than that, at that time, Hockey Canada, you know, unlike anyone else in the world, you know, there there was this great sharing going on. You know, you were part of that, and uh obviously Claire Drake and uh you know Mike Babcock and Ken Hitchcock, you know, and Andy Murray and on on and on. And and every summer, if you were one of the coaches on one of the teams, under 17, under 18, we all got together in Calgary in the summer, and it was this giant for me professional development week where you know you you got to spend time with with you having coached the Olympics and and Dave King, you know, another guy. And it was an endless encyclopedia of hockey knowledge that I'll tell you what, I would not have have had success coaching. And and how that comes back to building a program is I think I think that's how I learned to build a program. I mean, we had great teams in Detroit. Jimmy Rutherford built great teams, uh, Paul Maurice and I coached great teams. But when you sat in those hockey canon meetings and they had the old ghost rosters out, and and you'd talk about different elements you needed, like there was always discussions and rooms in hockey, but it was never put to paper in a in a you know educational way, like like it was when we were in those things. So honestly, I I believe I I learned more than anything about culture and how to build a team through those hockey candidate experiences. And and really, uh as you know, a lot of it was more from failures and wins. Uh you know, we we you guys would come back, whoever was speaking, and you know, it'd be a loss, and it was because you know, we had an issue with this guy was bigger than the team and we shouldn't have taken him, or uh we didn't have enough of this type of player, we needed more of that. Like just being a fly on the wall, listening to you guys debrief on the successes and the failures, uh, you know, really set a foundation for me on on kind of a belief system on on what I thought was important.

Tom Renney 24:07

Yeah, that's really interesting. And I think obviously, Pete, you you're doing way too much of this stuff for sure for a guy that's very involved in working in the NHL and still, you know, still working hard at it. It boggles my mind when you think back to that group of people you talked about, like Claire and Kangaroo and George Kingston and George from back in the day, and George La Riviera from Quebec. Just Mike Johnson, yeah, MJ. Like it's just it's just amazing how much sharing went on there. And nobody was hiding anything. You know, it wasn't like I keep this because I gotta win. That was the furthest things from people's mind. And and the quality of sharing there was absolutely remarkable. And and you know, I think my age group could reiterate exactly what you just said, Pete, for what you got out of those from those people. And even the mentorship that they provided you along the way in your journey, you you always felt like you could pick up the phone and call any of them, you know, and ask an opinion on this. The one of the great things for me was taking Claire the year that we were preparing for the Olympics. Claire worked with Danny Dubay and myself, and he would drive down from Edmonton every practice, you know, and he would sit up in the stands and he'd fill out his notebook and he'd come into the room after practice and we would talk for hours. Hours. You know what? I th I know he got as much pleasure out of that as we did for sure, because I really enjoy doing that now for the few people that I'm did I talk to or whatever. But it's just a big thrill, and Claire got a heap heap of fun out of that. But I'll tell you something. He got us ready for the Olympic Games, and we were we were not picked to do well, but he he talked about the University of Alberta culture. You know, and here's a man that had won a a national football championship and CIS championship uh in sport and uh and hockey, football hockey in the same year. And why wouldn't you be listening to that? You know, and then those that followed Claire were just cookie cutters of the same approach to the game, the same attitude, you know, the the whole idea was to grow people, you know, so that your program would be fortified with nothing but great character people, you know. And I'm glad that you went there with that with that group of people, because I don't think either of us would be sitting here talking about it if if we hadn't had that chance to be in their company and and learn, that's for sure. Um so the next one I have is like where do you think the game is going? You like it? Are you happy you know with it with the way it's played? Um, what are your biggest challenges as a coach under the current circumstances? Staying current, looking ahead, but also doing what's been good to you.

Peter DeBoer 26:28

Yeah. Well, I'll tell you what, I I love I love the game. I had an aha moment. I I was uh on the Olympic and the Four Nations staff, and uh we went to the Four Nations. Game one was in Montreal, or game two uh was in Montreal against the U.S. that night in Montreal, the big brawl night.

Tom Renney 26:48

Yeah.

Peter DeBoer 26:48

But I found myself probably for the first time in 20 years, almost as a fan, that the pace and the speed of the game at ice level that night, you know, with the best players in the world back together for the first time, was it was McDavid's first time playing best on best. Right. Um was absolutely incredible. And I I've coached in two Stanley Cup finals and you know, six or seven conference finals. It was a whole nother level above that. And uh like it was it was incredible how fast it was. And and I I remember sitting there going, hey, you know, you're working here tonight. You can't you can't just watch, you gotta get the next defense pair ready to go. Yeah. So I think the game is is in a spectacular place from a speed and entertainment point of view. From a player safety point of view, a guy I'm gonna give a shout out here personally that I think has played a big role in the state of the game is Dave Branch, uh, who passed away a year ago. Dave was a commissioner of the CHL in junior hockey for forever, but Dave was on the cutting edge of everything. Dave was a lawyer, and Dave was talking about education packages for players before players ever got education packages. He was talking about paying junior players more. I remember Paul Maurice lost his eye with a puck. Dave Dave was at the forefront of visors in hockey. And at the time, if junior hockey didn't put in visors, the NHL never would have. Junior hockey put in, you know, fighting rules, which I think directly led to less fighting at the higher level. So there's so many things you could talk about. But oh, the state of the game. Thank you. Love it. The business part of the game. Listen, everybody is their own corporation. It's always been like that. I mean, you your career is is only so long, and you have to make, I get it, you have to make enough money to live the rest of your life. Yeah. But there's a business aspect to the game and a loyalty aspect that maybe we had uh in the past where you you know you could keep a core group of players together for longer that was really special. That's really hard to do now.

Tom Renney 28:52

All right, all right. The reason I forgot is because I there was an emotional connection to Dave as you were talking about him. Yeah. Just a leader in every every way, shape, or form. And it started with player safety. Yeah, for sure. And God bless him, because uh I think that's yeah, he was a legend and and and he will remain so, and I'm looking forward to his name going into the Hall of Fame, whenever that might be. Pete, I wonder about sort of and thanks for taking the time. I I just get going. What what about talent and character, maybe work habits? Like when you're putting a team together or you have the opportunity to have a say as you should as a head coach and a successful one in the NHL, and you're looking to put this group of people together that's going to do something special. What is it that separates great teams from those that are good but can't quite get it over the top?

Peter DeBoer 29:38

Yeah, great, great question. You know, I think we're all still looking for that that magic formula. I I think there are there's some common denominators in the special teams I've coached, and they've always started with my best players, my leaders were always my most honest players on those teams that went the furthest. You know, if I think back, Memorial Cup championship team, I coached Mike Richards, you know, honest, hardworking, blue-collar player as there is, play 200 feet both ways. Your best players have to have that. When I went to New Jersey, it was Zach Parise, we went to the final. Uh when I went to uh San Jose and went to the final, it was Joe Pavelski and Joe Thornton. Like your best players have to be they have to be honest, they have to have an honesty to their game both ways, or your team won't have that. And you need that in order to have any kind of run. So you know, I think that's one of the common denominators. The other ones were that magical chemistry in your room that's really hard to find. You know, you never you really never know when you're gonna get it. I took the San Jose job, and everybody told me that summer, well, the the doors closed on San Jose, like the window of opportunity there's closed. Todd McClellan had been there. They they had had some great teams that come close, but never, never really got there. And and everyone was getting older. And and I went to San Jose and and the pride of those guys, Joe Thornton, Joe Pavelski, Brett Burns, Vlasik, and on and on. You know, not only was the door not closed, but you know, we we had another four or five year run in us there. And those guys just they they loved coming to the rink. They loved to work. They loved everything about the game. They they loved the process, they loved to practice, they love to work out everything that that went into the game. There was nothing that they didn't enjoy, but they enjoyed each other while they were doing it. You know, there was a lot of laughs, but but they worked.

Tom Renney 31:31

They put all the guys in, I guess, eh?

Peter DeBoer 31:33

Yeah, yeah. And that's that's so hard to find too. But uh that's why it's so hard to win. And that's why when you have players that have those characteristics, you gotta hang on to those guys as tight as you can and and build around them.

Tom Renney 31:49

I'm kind of winding down, but I I hope at some point in time we can do another one and and uh try not to bug you for for a while here because I know it's we're starting to wrap it up. But do you remember your elementary school teachers?

Peter DeBoer 32:00

Yeah, I do, yeah. Do you? Yeah, and you know them by name and what grade and all that. You know what? I know Mr. Hart was my principal. At that time, I was in a small country school, and the principal actually he taught classes. He he ran he ran the teams, you know, the some of the sports teams. I mean, he was he was a do-it-all guy and yeah, really influential grade school guy. And then what I remember even more, Tom, was was some of my coaches as a youth player. That's where I was going. And the firewall. Yeah, and the and the impacts that they had. Uh, you know, I I had a coach in I was I was born and raised in Dunville, Ontario, a little farm community in southern Ontario, and and uh we had a coach, Coach Green, and he had played some minor semi-pro and had come back to town, and he was coaching the junior C team, but he also coached a lot of the youth programs. He was just he he was born to coach, he was one of those guys. He was a connector. I mean, he's easily could be sitting where you or I were if times were different. But he was way ahead of his time for that era in what he was was teaching, what he was talking about, the mental part of the game, things like that that that no no one even paid any attention to. So I got really fortunate and then I got extra fortunate. I got drafted to the Windsor Spitfires and and I walked into a dressing room with Tom Webster, yeah. Um who who ended up being a an NHL coach for a long time, but a really impactful person on my career. I again we talked about why I stayed in junior so long. Yeah, Tommy did that for me. I mean, I I walked in a green guy, he he showed me well, he he turned me from a boy into a man and really was instrumental in in who I became as a 20-year-old coming out of junior hockey. Where I might have been had I not got that type of mentorship, I don't know. You know, it was uh just really, really lucky.

Tom Renney 33:56

That's so good. You know, it's funny we were talking earlier about you know, when did you kind of think you might have what it takes? And I uh I was coaching the national team at the time, and this was I think after it was after the Olympics. And um Glenn Sayther, who we both know, uh had been trying to get me to come to Edmonton in some way, shape, or form to coach or whatever. I talked to him about a player that was a first-round pick, and he said, Well, I'm gonna send this guy to you. And he said, you know, good luck with him. This is what I'd like to see him improve on and whatnot. And so we worked on all of that. But when he went back and the following training camp, he sent me a note. He said, Tom, I sent you a boy, you sent me back a man. And Pete, I know it's about the Stanley Cup, I know it's about gold medals and trophies and all that kind of stuff. I know it resonates with you. That's pretty cool. You know, and we win, we're supposed to win, we're paid to win, we're paid to maximize the potential that everyone has that we put on the ice. But how does that resonate with you? I think you know what I mean. I'm not this is not about me, this is about you. So I I wanted to use that as an example because I I know you well enough to know how you think.

Peter DeBoer 34:59

That's everything, right? I mean, that that's our legacy. I'm I'm hopeful that's my legacy. And and you know what, there's nothing better than getting that call or that note from that guy you played for. And and for me, a lot of times it's it's not even a guy that went on to the NHL. I mean, I I had I coached junior for so long. I had I had guys that were police officers and teachers and you know, lawyers come back years later, or I'm still in touch with it, it'll send me notes. Uh so you know what, that's what it's all about. And uh you know you've made a difference. And it's a small feeling of probably why teachers teach, right? Uh, you know, and why they're so special and and why they should be so sacred. And this probably goes to you know something that I'd love to hear your opinion on. But you know, I I I think the two hardest jobs in the world right now, other than maybe Prime Minister of Canada with Donald Trump, but uh is uh is teaching and coaching, youth. Yeah. Uh um because the world is is upside down in a lot of places as far as as messaging and support. I'm afraid we're gonna lose a generation of great young people from coaching and teaching uh because of it.

Tom Renney 36:15

Couldn't agree more, Pete. It's interesting, and we'll close up with this and let you have the last remarks. But when you when you think about you know the family, a young girl or young boy wakes up in the morning and they have their breakfast and mom and dad may be there, you know, it's it's you know, everybody's working and busy, and then off to off to school she goes. And those know she's at school doing her thing and and you know, uh and etc. etc. with a teacher, another adult, you know, in front of them, or adults in the case of multi-year uh learnings. And then once school's over, they might be lucky enough to get home, have a quick bite, maybe have dinner, but now you now is that discretionary time after that. So I do you do your homework or you do your homework when you get back from hockey practice? You know, do you do your homework after you get back from soccer practice? Et cetera, et cetera. And so to me, these these dots are a little bit disconnected now because of the technology and the ability to kind of get that information in a heartbeat from something else. Never mind someone else, but from something else, I'm a little concerned too. I I also kind of throw the medical people, you know, the the first responders in this area for sure. But Pete, it's when those kids, after having experienced that day, whatever it looks like, and they're coming to play hockey that night, having gone through whatever they've gone through, now the coach gets them. That's a tough job. That's a tough job. First of all, the surrogate that's in their hand 90% of the day has told them about the day and what's really important and all that kind of stuff. Um, you know, they may have seen mom and dad in the morning, but everybody's rushing off to do what they've got to do. Classes might have been good. I might be really struggling in math, and I'm, you know, or I lost my girlfriend and I and now I'm gonna go to hockey practice. And how do we do this? I don't know. I honestly don't know. And I I I you know I'm not expecting you to know either, other than to make it special when they when you get them. You use this phrase, you know, make the rink the destination. That is so true. They have to can't wait to get to get to the pitch, to the rink, to the court, to whatever it is, because they're gonna experience, you know, something that's non-judgmental. Um, they're with friends, they're safe, they can be themselves, they're gonna be held accountable, they're gonna be able to create, they're gonna be responsible, they're gonna have fun. Yeah, more comment than anything else. Where where are you on all of that? And we'll we'll close with the pop-up.

Peter DeBoer 38:27

I I agree a thousand percent with you. And and for me, that's where you get a good young coach with those intentions, and then he's got half the parents at the rink going, why are they out there having fun? They should be you should be grinding them. They're they're a step away from the NHL. My son's almost there, you know. Like the pressure on that. And we all know that. That if you listen to the stories of the best players in the world, you know, it was all based around that type of environment, fun at the rink. Um there was no grind to it at the youth level. There shouldn't be. It should, it should be enjoyment, it should be fun, and the coach should have the freedom to create that environment, and the parents should be supporting that, not questioning, you know, are you doing enough to get my son to the NHL? It's tough. And and I just hope I hope the next generation of coaches hangs in there and works through that, the next generation of teachers, the next generation of first responders, and sticks to their principles and their truth and gives that to you know our next generation of kids that we got.

Tom Renney 39:29

Well, Pete, you're a value-driven guy. You have principles beyond what most people have experienced. Um, I feel fortunate to have spent any length of time in your life because I I just I just have to watch you and admire it and somehow try to mirror that. I I just think you're an incredible person. What you did with Joe for the young fella in the Maritimes when you were in San Jose, um, who unfortunately passed away from leukemia. I'll never forget that as long as I leave as it was is exceptional. And uh it just goes to show what type of a person you are, and not everybody needs to know it. Um you do, and and uh that's the type of guy you are. You you downplay that and you know just make life as good as you can for the people that are in it.

Peter DeBoer 40:10

Well, thank you, Tom. Uh uh always a pleasure, and uh I'd love to do this anytime with you. I could talk hockey all day with you.

Tom Renney 40:17

Well, I appreciate it, Pete. And I'll give you a little bit of time to breathe and get ready for the season and get going, but I might shoot you a quick text and bug you again on a maybe a little conversation. But this is anytime. Have a good one. Take care, Pete.