Tom Renney 0:00

You've coached so many teams to championships and you coached so many different generations and been around so many just different generations of of players. How did your coaching evolve across the of the various generations and even your leadership beyond that? When you you know when you look at almost by decade, how did things evolve for you to where you know to where you were when you last seriously worked, but even to where you are now?

Scotty Bowman 0:26

Well, I think, Tom, what happened in my career wouldn't happen to a lot of people because as I got injured and wasn't going to play any any uh higher hockey than than in junior hockey, but I couldn't I I wasn't gonna be able to do what I was gonna thought I was going to do. I got very fortunate that I got into junior hockey when I was 22 years old as an assistant co assistant coach. And then I I stayed in junior hockey from 19 uh six to nineteen sixty-six. So I was in junior hockey either as a coach for probably seven of the ten years, and I was a scout for three of the years, and so I had a really good book on all players. I didn't I didn't have a big book on Western Canada because I was in the Eastern Canada, but all the Eastern Canada players for 10 years that came up in the Quebec League, the junior, and the Quebec League wasn't in the Maritimes at that time, just the Quebec League and the Ontario League, and and also the minor hockey, because we were we were signing players uh in that decade. There was no entry draft. It was one started in 63, but that was only for about three years. It wasn't a full draft. So all the good players, you we were recruiting the kids when they were 14 years old. I mean, I saw, I mean, I can go back and people ask me what was the greatest player you ever saw, and it's hard to pick one, you know. I I mean, I I saw I saw Bobby Orr at 13, I saw Wayne Carlton, I thought this player was one of the best I ever saw at 14, guys like that. But so I had a good book for 10 years, and then when I got a chance to to go in the pros in '67, I had I hadn't I knew all the uh I knew all the juniors. I mean, and and and that's where the NHL, there was no European players at the time. There was no US players, so it was all Canadian. And and that was when I got my good break. I got a good break to go to St. Louis under the late Lynn Patrick. And that that that I look back and I and when I when I see when I wanted to know about players that were pro like for the next five, six years, I remember them when they played junior. And and and that helped me a lot, you know? Yeah.

Tom Renney 2:48

That's uh and I I somehow I think that book still is is still in use. I I think if you're not holding on to one, it's in your mind, that's for sure.

Scotty Bowman 2:59

I yeah, I like to watch, I always wanted to watch players that weren't in the NHL or in pro. I I mean until until about a year ago, two years ago maybe, I went to I went to the all the development camps that the USA had. I I got to know a lot of the young kids before they picked their their team for the development program. So I because I was living in the U.S. during the summer month summer months, but I I didn't have as good a book on the on the Canadian kids because I was living in the U.S. But when I left, even when I left Montreal, when I decided that I had to go make a career change, that the team, the three uh the three teams that I was talking to, I was talking to Washington, I was talking a little bit to Toronto, which didn't go very well. I be they weren't they weren't they weren't Punch wasn't there anymore. It was Harold Ballard was running it, and I didn't that that that didn't appeal to me at all. And and now of course when you're in Montreal and and it's Toronto, there was quite a rivalry. But Buffalo, the reason I came to Buffalo was was I had a young family and it was close to the Canadian border, and I I felt that if I came to Buffalo, I I would be able to really keep up on the Canadian because we were even in the when I went to Buffalo in '79, the majority of the players were still coming. We didn't get a lot of Europeans, we weren't getting any any uh Soviets or Czechs in those years because of communism. But I was able to keep keep a pretty good book. I was able to get to games in Ontario, and I always wanted to watch young players play, so I still enjoy watching young kids. You know, I I haven't done it for a couple of years because I I'm not with a team. I haven't been with a team since 22, so it's it's five years now. But I still like to watch young guys, and I got some grandkids now that are they're not they're not going to be pros, but I keep in touch with those guys. And I got some of them that play golf and some of them that play hockey, and and I got uh what five girls that play hockey, five grand granddaughters. It's amazing. Uh I'm sort of I'm sort of more into the I mean, because of there's five girls that play at different ages in different cities too, Boston and Chicago. I I mean I'm I I I do I do spend time watching them on Live Barn and I go to some tournaments. I haven't I go to a c if there's tournaments around the U.S. I I I I go I've seen them play every year at tournaments.

Tom Renney 5:30

Yeah. Here's a question for you, Scotty. Since you know, you talk about watching young players and and what what is it what did you see in a young player that maybe no one else did at the time at least, or even a player, you know, whatever. But what did you see in a young player that kind of made you go, hmm, pretty good?

Scotty Bowman 5:50

Well, you you know, Tom, when I first started, there was a complete variation of skating, and and it would be a lot different now. When you go and watch these games now, if you ask me to pick out the the best skater, best bunch of skaters, it's it's pretty well even. There's so many players that skate, they all skate so well. So when I first started to watch, and and uh quite a bit of a story, but I lived in Ottawa, I was single, and I lived with a bunch of uh CFL football players. I was boarding at the time. Boarding uh, I wasn't in the in the place very much because I was scouting, and I that's when I went to see Bobby Orr play in Gananoque. He was 13 years old. And I I actually went to see two other players that were playing in Gananoque. The way that the thing was, it was Ganinoque against Parry Sound. Because of the population in Ontario in those days, it was a C because they weren't big cities, and and but it was so good hockey. And I uh the two players from Ganinock never made pro, but I brought I brought the man from the boarding house who was a football guy, and I said, we want to come for a drive. It was in March 1961, and I brought him to Gananoqui. It was only an hour drive, and and I I'm at the game, and and oh my goodness, Milt Schmidt was there, Lynn Patrick was there, Ren Blair was there, they had they had the owner of the Boston Bruins. I couldn't even I I was shocked. And and it was to see Bobby Orr. He was he had just had his 13th birthday, and I told the gentleman, I said, Oh, I gave him the two numbers of the other players. I gave him number eight and number 17. I remembered the two numbers. I said, watch these two guys. Honestly, he was not a hockey guy at all. He was a football guy, and he he turned to me after about seven or eight, ten minutes. He said, Scotty, that number two, but he was five foot three. But it was the reason I was bringing it up, his skating, his skating, and he had to puck all the time. So I mean, it was it was just it I can still see Bobby. I talked to him a lot about it, and he he knows he knows that I was at that game, but he was already on his way to Boston. He was 13 years old, and but uh so I I would say the the in my day when I first started to watch the young players, the thing that would pop out right away would be skating. Now it would be I would I would I look to see how they pro pr uh process the game, so which would be hockey IQ. If they're a defenseman, how how how do they play at the other the the opposing blue line? How do they play in uh on on the gap? You know, so I had different ways of looking at different players, but I would say now it'd be a lot different scouting because of the skating. I mean, I I went to the I went to see this fellow this boy from Chicago, and I mean the the game was was it was high pace, high, high pace. The goalies were pretty good in that game, but it was really it was really helter skelter. It would it's hard, Tom. Now I even find in the NHL that when I go when I do go to the games, even if I'm watching on TV, but I find that it's it's more chaos than when I first started, because the puck goes puck and we take out the red line, that was a big change, and we the puck goes so far from one side to the other, and and and then when you see the puck, you usually see at least four to six guys right around it. And sometimes you can't, you know, Tom, I keep saying the puck is so small, most times, and my eyes are still pretty good, but most times you can't see the puck because there's too many people around it. But when we first started to scout, you could like we the teams would start to play in that you see them coming up the ice slowly in their own end, you know, the forwards and the defensemen following, but it's a totally different game. I don't know the scouts now. They would have they get a lot of information though that we wouldn't get when we were scouting, you know.

Tom Renney 10:00

What's the biggest look as a coach, Scotty, what is the biggest adjustment adjustment you think you had to make? And if you did, you probably led the world to doing it. But what what was the one thing that you had to really adjust in order to stay to stay current, to stay successful, to win? You know, do you do you recall particular incident?

Scotty Bowman 10:20

When I first started, I I I I I I was I was a ninja junior. I never had they asked me to coach a parks team, and I did. And I went to watch teams practice because I I had no idea how to run a practice. And so so consequently, uh that it got ingrained in me that the practice, the practice sessions. So I really I I guess I would say I I probably tried to concentrate what can I do differently? What can I try? I mean, I tried a lot of things, a lot of them, a lot of them would work, a lot of them didn't work. I mean, I I remember talking in the in this the 76th Canada Cup team that I mentioned to you before. We got on the air. I had a meeting with uh with I had a good meeting. I I went with Fred Shiro in 1973. We both went with the NHL's uh sponsorship. We were allowed Russia was uh and the uh uh and and uh Canada and USA were were you couldn't get over there unless you were invited. We both went to a hockey clinic and I met Tarasov in 73, and so did so did Fred. And then in 76 I met him in Montreal, but he wasn't coaching anymore. And he I had an hour meeting with him. I I said, I I I'd like to talk to him, but I I can't speak Russian. And but we got a good interpreter, and he watched that was that that was our team that was just starting to really that that probably was the fall of 76, which I still think was the best team we ever had in Montreal, even though we had really good teams uh before and after that. They that was a team that only lost the eight games, and he watched us practice. The Russians practice before us, and oh my goodness, it was Helter Skelter. They had they had the two goalies in each net, they had a goalie in one corner and a goalie in the other end in the other corner. I met I met Tarasov and he he watched our practice and he took notes and he said, you know, you had seven drills, and he said, I like maybe two, uh maybe three at the most. The rest of them, there were too much standing around. And I said, Well, what do you mean? And he showed me, he he gave me some really good things. I I I tried them with Montreal, but we didn't uh we could we we didn't really need to do them. And and you know, one of them I got to mention to you because it's quite a story, but we had that was when we had the top defense in the I think in the history of the league. We had Robinson, Savard, LePointe, and we had another kid named Bill Nyrop, who who eventually was a really good defenseman, but left early. So, anyways, he he he looked at our practice and and he watched us coming out of our own end and he watched a little bit of it. He said, You're gonna do some scrimmage? I said, Well, maybe at the end I always do 10 or 15 minutes. So he said, you know, I I don't I'm watching LaFleur was just starting, I mean, he had he was drafted in 71, so now he was in his prime in 70, fifth year. He started the first three years he was slow, and then he then he was now winning scoring titles. But he said, you know, I I'd why do you leave him, why do you want LaFleur to stay close? You've got defensemen that can really pass the puck. He said, you know, you should have him do what we do. You should make LaFleur when he sees Robinson or LaFleur Robinson and Savard or LePointe, when he when they're gonna get to a loose puck and they got a little bit of time, he said, you've got to make sure he knows what he's doing. You gotta tell him to start skating right by that left defenseman. And he's gotta he's gotta make sure that left defenseman knows he's coming by him and pull him out, pull him out into the pass out of the blue line into the neutral zone, and then he said, have them cut across a little bit, and they can either hit him, hit him early or hit him late. But but the thing is, that other defenseman, and you know, you're playing teams like Boston had Brad Park, and they also had Bobby Orr at the time before you left to go to Chicago, but Bobby was on his last legs. But he wanted to, he said, if LaFleur is like our players, you're better off to play four on four in his own end, because he probably gets mixed up. I said, Well, no, he gets passes, but we had the red line too, you know. He said, Yeah, but you're better off playing four on four in your end. And you know, Tom, that's when the Russians started to do the passing from one D into the other corner, and then the two wingers came and they they circled, one went one way and one went the other. We never saw that in the NHL. We we never wanted, we had rules that our forwards didn't leave the blue line until the puck left the blue line. And so, you know, uh I I enjoyed listening to them. I tried it with our team, but we didn't have to do that. But but they didn't players didn't react to it. They what are you trying to do? Not lose any games, you know. So I but uh practice is uh getting back to what uh my answer is I really concentrated on on on I I believed strongly that the way you practiced, the way you didn't practice, the way you rested was very important as a coach. That to me that the that to me that the most important parts of the games, and you know, when you had a lot of good players, especially a lot that didn't that don't play as much as others, they look forward, those those role players look forward to practice sessions. And if you have good players, ex if you've got excellent top-notch players and and you have mediocre players, they're gonna get better if they pr both practice at the right time in the right way.

Tom Renney 16:15

Yeah, that's a good point for sure. And I it it's interesting how you say that, Scotty. I I I I wonder if it if a child is of the ability to play up an age level, would you look would you consider that a good idea, or would you consider it to be better to stay where you are and I don't want to say dominate, but have a have success, maybe be a leader, you know, and and just get even more confident.

Scotty Bowman 16:45

Well, you know, I I still think uh uh it it's like the exceptional player. The the more competition that he gets is gonna bring it out of him. And so so like Wayne Gretzky leaving home, Patrick Kane left Buffalo when he was 14. And oddly enough, Tom, there's a gentleman where I live in Sarasota, Florida. He's in charge of our it used to be called security. Now now it's called something else because they they they don't have guns and they're and they can't arrest people. So it's it's it's people that look after the gate and everything else. And one of them's from Argentina, and he's from the home, the same hometown. His name is Eduardo. I didn't even know his last name. And Edward, I got along pretty good with Eduardo. It's the same hometown as Messi. And he said, I have to tell you, he's a you know, like I I I don't follow soccer like he he does, but he he he doesn't he he he doesn't like Ronaldo. I don't know, well maybe because he's from the hometown of Messi, but he told me that when Messi he went the first two years he went to school in his hometown, a small little town, and he was so good in in soccer that they he went to an academy when he was eight years old. It was uh it must have been like the hockey academies they have in Sweden, but it's a soccer academy. And he said, when he was eight years old, he played against eleven year olds in soccer, and he said, in course all the way up, he always played at least two years ahead of his time, and uh two to three years even. So uh my answer would be ex for exception, it's the same as when they allowed the exceptional player in Canada to go and play junior. I think it's a good thing, but I don't think it's a I don't think it's good for everybody. It you'd have to that's a that's something, Tom, I don't like see kids leaving because the one thing you you don't want the best if the best three or four leave from a group of fifteen, that's not gonna help the other eleven or twelve. You know, you know, because you need competition. So that's a that's a tough question because I uh individually I would say if you if you if you play against better players, you're gonna improve more. But I I don't know if it's gonna hurt the the the system. See, I think like the USA, now they've produced a lot of players as you know of late, because you've been in that business uh uh uh for a long time. And you know, picking the best 23 or 25 players for the two-year program has really escalated a lot of those players, but you never know. There's so many other players around that didn't didn't get that opportunity. You know, so I don't I think I think I heard some things now that that that that may be going a bit uh by by the wayside a little bit, Tom. They may not they not but may not they're at the stage in the U.S. that they may not want to just select 50 players and and 25 in each group and then forget about the other. Is that is that have you heard that too?

Tom Renney 20:01

I I have. I've heard rumblings of that, and and I think the way it's it's it's worked extremely well for the for USA hockey in terms of you know, they're none they're under 18 programs, they're national under 20 programs and whatnot, you know, where they kind of hothouse, you know, yeah teams. They've certain amount of six teams and and they're good. There's no question about that. I think Canada's approach has been listen, there's 2,000 kids that are eligible to be a part of this program that are playing across the country now, you know, with a good scouting network, we can we can see them all and and everybody gets a crack at it. It's it's ideology, you know, in in terms of its approach, both in Canada and the U.S. a little bit different.

Scotty Bowman 20:42

But um But I heard I heard the players are leaving now, Tom. The the U.S. players were pretty pretty secure that they had to stay two years. Matthews only stayed one because he went to Switzerland, but now there's players that are that are that are not it's it's not a program as good as it was ten years ago for them. And maybe they don't maybe they don't need it now because they do have uh ice surfaces in places that they didn't have before, right? You know? I I think you're right there, Scotty.

Tom Renney 21:14

I think they have access to more facilities now and there's more opportunity. And I and I think too, and this is right in your wheelhouse, I I actually believe, you know, that's that the the coaching has improved immensely, you know, uh across the board. I think that the coaching is excellent. I think they're being taught the right things. I don't know about the number of games played, those that's those are always open to debate. But I think the actual thing is.

Scotty Bowman 21:43

And I know that if you don't do it, you're not it's not it's gonna be tough to make it. But if you know some players, like like even Sidney Crosby, I I got to know him pretty well, and he he still believes that one thing that helped his career. Was the ability to play other sports. And now they don't play other sports. Like I know my grandson, I know I like like I know my my grandson is nine years old, and he's a good little player, and he's he's he's been pushed. His dad, he's got three daughters as well. So it's it's uh Bob, my son Bob, the youngest one. He he doesn't want to go triple A. He said, I can't do it, I I can afford it, but I I got three other girls that play, so I'm gonna I'm not gonna go to I'm not gonna go to them. The triple A team wants them to go, but they play in all kinds of tournaments, and it's out of town, it's five hours there and there. So and he and he also he also wants to play soccer. He likes he likes another sport. Soccer plays at around the same time as hockey. So he said, you know, I'm gonna let him play soccer and uh in the fall, and and the hockey season never ends, but he does, I don't play in the summer. But I was wondering uh what do you thought about the the the kids now uh I mean they have to choose a sport, don't they, at a young age?

Tom Renney 23:04

Trevor Burrus There's a there's a point now where at 13 years of age, Scotty, if you haven't committed yourself to hockey, this is prevailing sentiment, you know, then it's too late. And and the fact of the matter is there's so much pressure on kids to make that choice at that age that um in minor sports in North America, there's 75% of the kids playing and hoping to play competitive and high performance hockey leave the sport. And and that that's sad, that's a sad commentary. But I will tell you I What age would they leave at 13-14? 13-14. Okay. That's when the pressure's on, you know, to have this type of equipment, to make this type of team, to travel here, to go there, to specialize and go to a defenseman camp or go to a forward camp. And and Scotty, like uh to me anyway, um, if I if I want a player that can read the ice, you know, and process, as you mentioned earlier, you know, and and understand certain certain situations and show good judgment, I want him to be a multi-sport athlete. I want her to be a multi-sport athlete so that when those things present themselves, I've had these other experiences that help me kind of, you know, look at this, you know, and equate what the right move is and do it. I I just think I think multi-sport athletics is critical. I think we specialize way too early and families make a decision that they've got the next one. And if they don't, they just say, you know, we're not doing this anymore. We're gonna we're gonna do something else, which is a bit of a sad commentary because you want them participating in multiple sports like you and I did growing up, you know, and and I think that's where hockey sense presents itself. Um, you know, that's what the wherewithal of the of the pitch or the ice surface or the court demonstrates exactly what how the how the player can process you know what's going on in front of him. I I'm a strong believer in that. And and yeah, we're specializing way too early, and there's a ver uh there's an awful lot of disappointed parents, you know, and disappointed children that by the time 13 or 14 decide to pack it in when sport can do so much for them. You know, and and uh yeah, it's it's an interesting debate and one that I think has you know has has uh demonstrated itself as being pretty pretty important. I I do have a question for you, Scotty, on you you didn't you mentioned three, well actually four very, very good defensemen in Montreal. And by the way, since I was four years old, Montreal was my team. You need to know that. But how how with it with a team like that, championship after championship, but how do you keep those great players and a team like that from getting too comfortable?

Scotty Bowman 25:37

Well, it's not, I mean, I think it wasn't so much what I did as much as the the the system had i it just they they wanted to play so badly uh at the time for that team, and they knew there was other players coming along that were pretty good players as well. And I I think that that kind of stimulated the competition for the the these guys knew they were good, but at the same time, they also they didn't want to look behind their their shoulders and wonder who's coming in to to to maybe challenge. But I I tried to I one thing I didn't do, I didn't do a lot of, I didn't do a lot of I tried to let them they were so good in their skill level that I I I didn't try to change a lot of their skill. I try I tried to to push the team element. That was that was the thing that I I if I said it once, I said a hundred times, I said we're not interested in individual trophies. If they come after the games, after the the the season and the playoffs, fine. But I I I don't I I don't want to see players worrying about and now it's awful hard right now because you know the the the there's so many individual trophies for so many, and there's there's so could so much conjecture. What what uh what is the Norris trophy, what's the heart trophy, what's the MVP? The players have their own, they vote on their own. But that that is important, I'm sure it's important in the negotiations of the players now that once you once you you see these players that they won the heart trophy or they won the Art Ross scoring and they won defense trophy, Norris. It's important. So I I didn't try to really push them as far as I I I pushed the team element on them all the time. And you know, I didn't I never threatened them or anything. I don't I don't think I did. I I I was I was tough on the conditioning. I I wanted uh that's where the practices came in. I I wanted to get a team I wanted to get a team that had and and I and I and you know I I I used to the two the two things uh they're so simple. And I I remember talking to a a coach at a at a uh prospect camp last fall, and I never met him before. He he coached uh he coached an assistant coach in Nashville and he went to New York, Dan Muse. Then he went to Pittsburgh. He did a good job in Pittsburgh last year. He surprised everybody with what they did, and he was asking me, I said, Well, uh what's what what can you tell me that I could hang my hat on? And I said, Well, there's two things that I could tell you if you could get your team to do these. One is a lot different than when I started, because we never had video review. But I said, I would continually stress in all practices when I had the blue line call, I never want to score a goal this year that has to be reviewed. So, what do you mean? I said, Well, you know, I always told our players the the player the player that controls the blue line to me is the player that has the puck. And he's got to be careful that he doesn't do something at the blue line different than most guys do, my waiting or doing another stick handle, but he controls the blue line. The other two guys that are probably uh pushing with him, they they they they just have one job to do. Don't go offside. Now I said in my day it was important because the linesmen were human and and you know they could they couldn't it wasn't as fa a factor like it is now. Now if you score a goal and it's off and it's and it's offside, you're not it's not gonna count because they they they're so good at at the at the video review. I said, that's important, Tom. I uh Dan. I said the other one is I was a stickler, and I said, I don't know how I would do it now because there's 30 and 40 second shifts. You you can't change on the fly because you you have the parker because you're putting it in a certain place. But I stress to our players that you're gonna make the decision to come to the bench, and it's gonna be sometimes after a minute or a minute and 15 seconds. I don't want you to tell me that you can't give me the first three or four strides at a at an all-out pace. I know you have to slow down to get off the bench and off the ice to get onto the bench sometimes, but don't be lily-dallying and just keep working your team. I know you do it in scrimmaging and you don't scrimmage much, but I said I was a stickler that if you change better than the other team over a 70, now it's 82, 84 games, you're gonna have an edge that's gonna be beneficial sometime during that season. I I don't I didn't want our players changing and just drifting to the ice, and uh, and and especially now, now the players are are they're short shifts. Don't tell me they can't give you three more strides to get off the ice. And you know, I saw him, I saw him and he worked on it all year, and he told me that the after he worked on it, the team did change better. And I felt good about him. You know, I said, you're a good man if you if you can, it's not easy to do. But I I was taught that before I started to coach junior. I used to go to Montreal practices and Toe Blake would would would he would intentionally blow an offside with a close play, and then players would get upset. And I asked him once, I said, why that wasn't offside when you know, but he said, Why do you I'm my my impression to the team was why do you make it close enough that they might call it offside? Yeah. Just make sure you don't go offside. But now, Tom, now though those little things like you know, like I I see some teams are a lot better that and changing. Some teams are better, you know. I I think over the course of the season, if you if you make the the right moves, uh it doesn't show up one game, but it's gonna show up in a in a season, you know?

Tom Renney 31:57

Yeah, I I I agree with that completely. And and I I wonder w w you know with what you're talking about, this is this is a this is maybe a little bit unique, but I know you can answer it. How do you feel about the reference to teams culture? You know, the in the environment that they come into, the culture that, you know, that they that they live within as teammates, as a team. You know, there's a lot of reference to culture nowadays, and is it a strong culture, or is it one that's fractured? You know, it's it's easy, well, it's it's easy for my seats anyway to look at the Montreal Canadians of your day and and Pittsburgh and subsequent to that, but you know, the culture seems to be a catchword now. And and when you think back to your teams, were your were your cultures strong? And if they were, what what was sort of the what galvanized that group to be committed together?

Scotty Bowman 32:52

I think it was important to know your team, know your players, how how they operate within the team, and how they how they are as players and how they are as people. And I I w I always had tried to get a core of five or six players that I could I could meet with, I could talk to, I could, I could reason with, and I I could have those players feel that that there was naturally a captain and it was two assistants, but I that wasn't enough. I had three other ones. I had five or six all the time, and I could give you just a story because it happened, and it's not always peaches and cream with when you have when you have to tell people certain things. But we had we had won we had won two cups in a row, I think 76 and 77. And in those days, I I did I didn't hound them in the summer. There was a maybe two or three players that I I tried to advise because they weren't they weren't the same as the other players about looking after themselves, and we didn't have the same conditioning we had today. And one player in particular wasn't taking care of himself, in my opinion. And we we we went to our training camp. He didn't have an he wasn't one of the top players, and he wasn't one of the lower end players, and right in the middle of the group, but he was an important player. And and I said, I said to myself, you know, he's not doing his job in training camp. And we always had a good farm team, and and Al McNeil ran our farm team for us, and we were so fortunate because we had good players to give him, but he he developed them the same way. And we had one young player that led the American League in scoring, Pierre Mondeux. They won the, they won Al won three times in the Calder Cup in that team. And Pierre Mondeux led the team, led the led the league in scoring. He came to training camp, he was outstanding. We'd won the two cups, and uh we had seven or eight preseason games. He looked terrific. My other player, Yvon Lambert, was his name. He was an important player on our team because he was an aggressive player. He could put the puck in the net, but he didn't, he wasn't in the best shape that I wanted him. So we came to the opening game of the season, the third year, and that's when they put the banner up, and that's when they presented the rings in the room before the game. And that morning I I I had to make a decision, and I decided I went in, I put the lineup on the board, and I didn't put his name on the board. And I put Mondu in that lineup. And sure enough, uh as soon as I put it on the board about 10:30, we were skating at 11, about 10 minutes later, my group of six players came into my office with my assistant coach, Claude Ruel. And he was very friendly with a lot of the players, but he was a hang-up teacher. And he wasn't a coach. He didn't want to get involved with discipline or anything. And I told him what I was going to do. He said, No, I don't think you should do that. You you got you, it's the opening game. I said, Well, I have to do it. I just believe in it. I said, This other player deserves to play. So what anyways, I called him in. It was a tough meeting. The players were upset. They they said, You you must play them. And I said, no. I said to myself, and then they they left in a hurry. They left, they they were not they were not happy. One of the most un unfortunate times I was with them. And my guy said to me, you know, I think we could change. I said, no, we're not changing, but I said, I have a I have an idea, and I had read about it somewhere, and I went in the dressing room, and I said, now in front of the in front of the group, I said, Look, we have a tough call here. And I said, you know, I I had to make a decision, and I said, it's it's unpopular, it's maybe not correct, but I made it, and I can't change it. But I said I had an idea that I could present to you people, and here's what it is. We have 18 players that are suitable and ready to play, and I have 17 uniforms. If one of you can volunteer not to dress tonight, it'll take care of the problem. And you know what happened, Tom. Nobody no and so so my my group of six, I mean, they accepted it. It was more a joke at at the end, but I mean I had to do it because it was it was not easy to do. Not easy to see. And you know, as time went on, I went to Buffalo two years, three years later, and a year after in Buffalo, I I they they didn't protect Lombaire, and I brought him to Buffalo. I brought him to Buffalo. And in, I mean, you know, and he he performed for us like he he could by that time he was getting on, but I I I think sometimes you tough decisions are not easy to make.

Tom Renney 38:06

That's what that was one of my questions, and you've answered it. Is that you know, what's the toughest decision a coach has to make? And line them. Definitely, hey, Scotty, and you your only currency, your only currency is ice time.

Scotty Bowman 38:18

That's it. You can't. I mean, you can help them or you can hurt them, and you can put them on the ice against the best players. You can that's why I I I I I mean I I pushed I pushed a lot with a lot of the good players that I I I I can help you be a good player, but I gotta get you on the ice against certain players on the other team that are gonna make you be great. I can't put you on against certain players. So le let it let me figure it out when I'm gonna put you on. And I and I'll give you at the ice time that you need.

Tom Renney 38:48

What do you think? I'm gonna end with this one here, Scotty. And I hope I can do this again with you because I I I see this being episode one. Sure. What do you think parents need to do to encourage their kids this is tricky, to put down that handheld device, go outside and play. You know, and if and if if I'm framing it the wrong way, that's not your fault, it's mine. I'm just trying to figure out a way where from from the parent to school to what we do with discretionary time with and for our kids. No, I I agree.

Scotty Bowman 39:29

I agree because one of my grandsons went to a camp this summer. He's thirty it was twelve, twelve, gonna be thirteen soon. Now he went to a camp. It was a fishing it was a fishing camp and everything and uh and some sports, but the the moment they got to the camp, I think there was about thirty-five at the camp, they had to give their phones to the and and the parents knew that the phones were available between seven and eight every night if they had to make communication. But they they they if they went to the camp, you had to give your phone to the thing. And I I I still think it was a good idea. And you know, they all went and they all gave their phones in, at least for the five-day camp. It was Monday to Friday. And it's odd enough, eh, that the the the I think you g the that it that it's too it's too much to to ask them to to not do it because the you get involved with it and they're gonna do it. And it's it's like it's like in school. I my my my my two the two boys that live there, they they're they're good students, but I I I I I was happy we're all we always give them a nice gift if they do certain things. But you know, the the the school the school supervisor, I met him because he comes down to Florida for a vacation, and I showed him the r reports, you know, and he said, good, uh you got they got nice nice standings, but you know the two the two the one subject that he he stressed, he said, this is very important, and they both had good grades in it. Robotics. Robotics. They have it on their on their one's in grade five, the other was in grade eight. Robotics, Tom, is when you don't get any information and you have to figure it out. Did you ever know about that that at school? Robotics?

Tom Renney 41:21

Not a chance I knew about that. That's that's very interesting.

Scotty Bowman 41:25

He said robotics are the most important subject they can take, because nobody no nobody teaches them, nobody trains them. They have to they have to figure it out for themselves. But but anyways, I I on on the subject of the uh I think you just have to say at the right time, we we we have to you know, we're here to do something, we're here to practice, we're here to play. And can you know, let's let's make sure our phones go in the right place. And I think the parents would probably like it too, because they probably can't we all like a level of discipline, and you know that's for sure.

Tom Renney 41:57

I I I'm gonna change and add a add a two more questions. Do you remember your minor hockey coaches?

Scotty Bowman 42:05

I do. I do. Yeah, I do know I do I do remember the hockey coach. We had a great team. We won the provincial midget championship. Two of the players made the NHL, which was quite a bit for Quebec in those days. I don't think I would have made it, but Don Marshall and Bucky Hollingworth, a coach was Tommy, Tommy Burnett, and I remember him like it was yesterday. He knew nothing about hockey, and he just let us play. Tom, he just he he he he got the job because in those days we didn't play many games, 15 games, 19 1947. I mean, uh we won the midget championship, and he he didn't he just he just he he didn't he didn't tell us anything. We had to play on our own. I do remember his name, Tom Burnett.

Tom Renney 42:52

Fantastic. So there there's my next question to that question is why do you remember them? And you just identified one of the whys, which is which is spot on, because play, fun, enjoyment, you know, that's what it was all about. Should still be. And my next question is and my last one, do you remember your elementary school teachers?

Scotty Bowman 43:10

Yeah, I do. I had one favorite. She was a nice grade three teacher, Molly Udall. And oddly enough, she was a she was a good-looking teacher, too. I remember that. I was only I will be nine years old, and she married the prince, a vice principal of the high school I went to. So, I mean, that was that I don't I do remember her. I do remember another teacher, though. I gotta tell you this story. Her name was Miss Ironsides. I finished grade nine. I had the misfortune, my sister was one year older than me. She was born born with two club feet back in 1932, which she had casts on her legs for at least from two years old till five. She never played sports. And my brother was a good football player. I had two brothers, but one was a football player, the other was a younger guy that went in to be a teacher. But my my sister was a great student. She was she was always one or two all the way up because all she did, we lived in a small flat. My dad made a place in the basement for her, so she could she could she all she did from the time I remember, she read and read and read, but she was she ended up to be a school teacher. That's what she was. She had a nice family later. She passed away about five years ago, but she was a wonderful student and always in con con competition for one or two. I was a fair student. I was a good student, but I didn't study, and I played sports. I played I played football and I played hockey for the school in those years and midget. So I'm following my sister, and the one year the one day I couldn't couldn't stand in school was the first day of school. I don't want any of my sister's teachers. And sure enough, I get to grade nine and I get Miss Ironsides, and oh my goodness. Well, Tom, I didn't do any homework. I did I I I I I I got 80%, but my sister got 98%. 98 or 99. I mean, she was always at the top. And Miss Ironsides got mad at me at Christmas, and she took out my sister's report card, and she took mine out, and she was giving it to me. And I was 79 or 80, 80, I think 85 or something was honors, but I got I my 80 was my criterion. And she she showed me the report. You'd never be able to do this now. And she said, Scott, you'll never at the present pace, you'll never even come close to your sister. I said, Miss Ironsides, I I I'm not even trying. I said, my sister, all she does is school. All she does is read books, all she does is do her homework. I don't I don't have time for homework. I play football for the school, I play hockey. That's what I told her. I said, I I can't reach my sister. I'm sorry, but I and she didn't like it. I told my teacher, I said, I can't, I I'm sorry, but I said I'm I'm happy to get 80.

Tom Renney 46:19

Yeah.

Scotty Bowman 46:19

And that was it.

Tom Renney 46:21

I know you'd so that was my story. Scotty, it's been great. I hope you know that how much I appreciate you taking time with me.

Scotty Bowman 46:30

You're welcome.