Tom Renney 0:00

How quickly did the guys kind of galvanize, you know, and come together? Because that's a short-term event. You know, you had lots of experience with playoffs, which are short-term events that even though they take two months to get done, you know, how did how well did the guys come together? And what did you guys as a staff do to make sure that guys were on the same page quick?

Bruce Cassidy 0:17

Well, I think the f the thing that Hockey Canada did well is they had an orientation in Calgary, uh, got all the guys together in late August. You know, there'd been some phone calls on the way, but that's a little bit impersonal, right? Where everyone's on the same call, they're giving you updates on things. But then you get together and you see, you know, Sid and, you know, et cetera, Connor, and they're and now the guys are starting to socialize. I think that was the first step where you could start to see some bonds being formed from probably guys that had played together in the past or knew each other from whether it's all-star games or junior teams or whatnot. So I thought that was really well done. You know, it w it wasn't long, so that guys were like, geez, you know, let's get out. You know, we got to get to training camp here sooner. It's a perfect amount of time, just enough time to get to know each other, you know, do some things off the ice. You know, the golf event was nice, and then a few other guys spoke. And so I thought that was a really good first step. And now you come together as a team, and Coop obviously had a game plan going in, you know, about practice, what parts of the game do you feel like you really got to touch on right away? And special teams was a big one, right? Because those can guys haven't played together in those scenarios. So we, you know, spent a lot of time in that area. There were some conversations before I was in charge of the power play. So I caught talked to Connor a little bit about you know different setups and and Sid. And then, you know, Pete had the PK, so we got right into that and discussed, hey, what are the guys most familiar with? Is it a diamond? Is it a box? Have a little bit of those decision-making calls about what's going to be easiest for them to have success. How do we want to play? So that was a lot of what the coaches did ahead of time. And and Coop ends up landing on what he wants, and we help him implement it. And we did that. We were able to get three days of practice, which was nice. Yeah. And a lot of times, Tom, what the guys guys want day offs in the middle of the year, they don't want to skate that much. This was the opposite. Those guys wanted to skate and get to know each other, get on the ice, get their touches, and be around each other. So that was something different than maybe when you have time off during the year that guys usually want to be away from the rink. They wanted to be around the rink.

Tom Renney 2:09

That's pretty cool. It's a special event, obviously. And and uh I I get that. I I'm curious how much focus as a coach do you put on kind of the environment, you know, like the rank, whatever. Like, you know, with your team, obviously there's a combination of players there and staff and whatnot that have to kind of galvanize as well and get some level of synergy with them, I guess. But how much of a premium do you put on the environment so that guys can go out and give it their best shot?

Bruce Cassidy 2:36

Well, that's for Scott Salmon's experience in this, you know, comes through. He probably him and Coop, I would assume, went through a lot of different scenarios over the years of what they felt worked the best and what maybe they could improve on. So I think that for me was was I just went along with with you know those two guys who had been there and done it. This was my first experience. So that part of it, and and some of that is just as simple as planning rides because the transportation was an issue in Milan with getting a big bus versus three smaller ones and which guys like to go early. And be surprised how much planning to go into a simple thing of guys that are routine-oriented hockey players, uh, what time they're gonna eat, what they're gonna eat, what's gonna be available. So I think there was long discussions on that, you know, through with the leadership group as well. So that is one part of the environment. I think they tapped into it like logistics, like how do we get these guys, knowing that they're at odd times. It's not 11 o'clock every day like the NHL when you have your pregame skate and you eat. You had to work around some some different when you'd be even able to be in your in your dressing room. Because someone else was using it some of the time, right? And the practice rink and the the timing of it. So there was a lot of that where you had to be pretty detail-oriented on making sure you, you know, you got your work done with, you know, your well, whereas in the NHL, you're used to having your own practice facility and go in whenever you want and stay as long as you want. So those are some things that uh I thought everyone did a good job with. I thought we were never surprised by anything that way. Yep. So that to me was a good thing. And then that's probably the biggest thing, I think, is getting the players all where they need to be in one spot. There was some activity building where I think the guys went to a speed skating event, and I think that was well organized and everybody went. And I thought it was good for the guys to see other things going on at the Olympics. Coaches are usually, you know how that is. We're behind closed doors looking at computers and getting through analytics and data, but those guys were able to get away. I know that there are a couple other small events they did at Hockey Canada House. If they had people in town, I think it was great that they were able to get family over there and get them taken care of, right? Because that's another big thing. Family wants to come. It's like being in the Stanley Cup Finals, you know, everyone wants to be your friend, everyone wants to come see you. And you got to take care of a million people and get yourself ready to play. So I thought having that, uh, the Hockey Canada House and activities there, they'd say, hey, just go over there for now. I got I need some rest or I got to get my napping or my my therapy or whatever whatever's they need and know that their family's taken care of and not sitting in the room twiddling their thumbs, so to speak, and now all of a sudden you feel you know, you naturally feel bad. So I thought that was great too, that they they had access to different things to do where the players could get refocused.

Tom Renney 5:04

I guess too, it with that kind of with that environment or that attention of detail, which the guys are certainly used to, but they're also used to this is when we're doing this, this is when we're doing this. And they're certainly they are routine-oriented, Bruce, like you said. And I'm I'm curious then was the culture itself able to kind of just bubble naturally from there, or did you have to do anything extraordinary to kind of build this the singleness of purpose, uh, you know, as a as a team going after You know what?

Bruce Cassidy 5:31

I think Coop kept it fairly light. He would have a meeting a lot of a lot of evenings, and he'd have a different theme. I know early on we had a couple of speakers. I think that helped uh sort of get the ball rolling of what it means to represent your country. But once we were there, I thought he did those little meetings at night pretty well, got the guys together for 10 minutes, maybe before dinner, and would hit on a certain theme, whatever that happened to be. You know, it could have been a story. I know that there was a story about uh one of the the sports you know psychologists who ran a marathon. It was it was funny, it was in Maine. Like it was it was a good, just a good story, but it it certainly related to what the next day was was going to involve for us. So there was little things like that, you know, that Coop is excellent at. He's a really good speaker, and he can get guys' attention, and those stories stick with you. So that was probably the maybe something that we could have done differently than other teams. I don't know what the other ones done, but he did that very well, and he did have four nations. So there was carryover, so the players almost knew what was coming, and and you know, so it wasn't uh like an obstacle for them, or it wasn't like, oh boy, we got to meet again, get together, you know. Like I think those things when you have a group of 25 players, you know, not everyone's the same wants to meet at a certain hour. Other guy, you know, they mean they have what they want to do. So I thought w that was well done. But other than that, there was, you know, I don't know that there was anything other than the normal uh everyday video. Here's what we're doing, practice, here's what you know happened the other game that we can be a little better on. We tidied up on that and away we went. So I think the guys more or less knew what was at stake. Yeah. Uh especially with Sid being there, being through so many of them. Drew Dowdy was a good leader there. And I think Coop did a good job allowing the players to sort of, hey, you you've got a sort of message to the new guys what this is all about, what it means, and and he trusted uh, you know, the guys that had been there to help him what you know in those areas. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

Tom Renney 7:20

You've had an excellent career, obviously, and it's far from over, of course. But I'm curious to know, you know, you go into something like that, again, a short-term event or whatever, you know, even if we want to talk about youth hockey or minor hockey or any level of hockey, men's or women's, and you've been a head coach, and that's kind of what you know. And then how do you integrate into a coaching staff and and serve as an assistant coach? Did you have to change your mindset at all or just think back to a previous time when maybe you were? Or how does this this is a powerhouse of leadership, you know, and I'm and I'm wondering how the heck you integrate you know into being an assistant coach. I I've done it a couple of times, and to be honest with you, Bruce, I didn't think I was very good as an assistant coach at all. And and I'm just curious of your thoughts on, you know, the coaching staff that way and how everyone being head coaches, you know, were able to melt together and get the job done.

Bruce Cassidy 8:12

Yeah, well, we did meet in in the summer and and we sort of defined our responsibilities, especially after Four Nations. I think we learned from that. Coop said, hey, we this is exactly what everyone's gonna do. Any questions? And so we knew going into this Olympic experience that we were a little more dialed into our areas than maybe the first time around. Yeah. I still think we we did fine the first time, but we knew each other, it was the same staff. So that part helped us a lot. Yeah, being an assistant, I think you gotta just listen more. You know, when you're the head guy, you're probably doing more of the talk. And even though you need to be listening to everyone around you, eventually you gotta be the decision maker.

Tom Renney 8:46

Right.

Bruce Cassidy 8:46

As an assistant, it's like listen more. And then, you know, when it's your turn to to me, I looked at it, I'm not an overly vocal guy when it comes to a room like that. Hey, speak up when you need to. If you got something important to say, say it, especially if it's in your area. Yeah. And then just be prepared. Like I had all my work done the night before and wanted to make sure that if something were to come up in the morning that, you know, if someone throws you a curveball, I think as an assistant, you got to be ready for that. So you got to be out front of some stuff too. And that would be different than a head guy. I think head guys sometimes, and Coop was like this a bit, something would come up. Sammy would need to talk to him, and all of a sudden, you know, we'd get sort of derailed for a little bit and start losing time. So you got to make sure that, you know, you're ready for those things to push something aside and get right to another area. Adaptability, I guess. But for me, I didn't mind it. I haven't been an assistant a lot in my career, but you know, the few times it was there, and I know what I want from my assistants, so I kind of worked backwards that way. Okay, what would I want me to be doing? So make sure you get it done. And and I thought it worked out pretty well. We didn't have a lot of sort of, oh boy, this area is we really got to fix this in a hurry. You know, there was always a couple of things like, okay, we can be better getting through the neutral zone against a different four check over there. There's a lot of more one fours or no pressure from F1. So how what are we gonna do? Are we gonna just chip and chase the whole time coop, or do we want to find some creases? So, you know, and that happened to me out my area. So I got involved and dug around a little more in that and watched a little more of maybe France or whatever, even though you think France, you're gonna beat France, but you don't want to get caught with your pants down. So you make sure it's it's done. And and so that those were the little differences that I found, or you know, did a little more and uh maybe different type of pre-scale than I would as a head coach. But I thought we got through it. I think Coop's very good at delegating. He'll listen to people and then then off he goes. So and I thought talk was and Pete DeBoer were excellent at that. You know, nobody needed to command the room. I thought our personalities mesh very well. I think we're gonna be good friends for life because of these experiences of Four Nations and the Olympics, and we'll always be have a mutual respect for one another and and work together and help each other out along the way. I know when the puck drops and you're coaching against the guy, it's different. But you know, in between, I think we'll we'll always be uh good for one another.

Tom Renney 10:53

Yeah, I think that's a great statement. I think yeah, it is it is something that you hang on to forever, that's for sure. What's your evolution as a coach? When did you decide I'm gonna coach? How did you prepare yourself and how did you get to as far as you have, which again is pretty impressive, but it's like you know, you've done it all. When when did you know that this is what I want to do? And then how and that evolution of being, you know, kind of where you are now?

Bruce Cassidy 11:17

Yeah, it certainly wasn't linear by any means. If you look at uh there's a lot of ups and downs along the way. I essentially was retiring as I was in my last year. I was playing in the minors in Indianapolis, it was Chicago's minor league team, and I was on an independent contract because I had been there a while, but I I'd ripped up my ACL the year before, and I did my other one when I was younger. So I knew it was over. The rehab process, I just wasn't gonna be able to, you know, you're getting older in the minors as it is. So I was sitting out and I thought coaches, man, they're always in a grumpy mood. They're always yelling at someone, you know, that wasn't gonna be me. And sure enough, uh Bob Murray, who was the GM in Chicago at the time, said, you know, I asked him, What do you think? He says, Well, you'll never know until you do it, you know, and you you got a good hockey brain. You've been coaching basically in the minors for five, six years. You're you're always rooming with the first round pick. Your defense partner is always a prospect. So you're basically doing it without even knowing it. You're just doing it on the ice. So I kind of thought through that and said, He's he's kind of right. So let's give it a try. And what happened was there was an opening in the East Coast League. Uh, we had the same owner in Indianapolis as Jacksonville, Florida. They fired their coach and they said to me, Do you want to interview for the position? I interviewed for the position a day later, and I was coaching, I think three days later. And here was your job, here's the keys to the camper, away you go. And there was no assistant coaches down there. There was a player assistant who was a little bit older, but he was just probably your best player because he got paid a little more to do that. So I kind of sat with him for a bit. And then my GM was my age. He was, I said, 30 or 31. He was a business guy, and he said, Here, you know, here's your roster. You're allowed to trade whoever you want. You can sign players' contracts for 24 hours. So, you know, be smart about it. Away you go. So we run practice. And the first game we I coached down there was against Bruce Boudreaux, and he was in Biloxi, Mississippi. And I tell people this because I said, Here's two young guys coaching in the East Coast Hockey League that went on to have pretty good careers in the NHL. So you never know. You just don't know who's going to make it, who's not. So, and there was a lot of stops in between. But that's where I got my start. And I loved it. I mean, I was in the office all day. I enjoyed the networking part, calling the coaches around the league to ask about players that were on waivers and about the trades. So that you're building your roster, the personnel decisions I really enjoyed. And then behind the bench, I just I you know loved the tactics of the game. So I got into it. Uh now I was by myself, so you have to manage, you know, it's much different than now. You're managing the whole bench, so you need a defensive to make sure the rotation for the line changes down there are good. Like an older guy, here, here's what I want, you know. So try to keep it moving. You're dealing with you know adjusting rosters all the time, so you you know, you can't be married to a specific line or whatnot, because guys are getting called up. And I always felt, well, this is why we're here to advance players, right? You want to win as a coach, but I always felt that part. It's why I think I had uh good success in the minors or enjoyed the minors, is because that was my life. I was down there and I I played 30-some NHL games, but I was predominantly a minor league player. So I really enjoyed the development part, watching a guy advance and sort of chase his dreams. So that part has always stuck with me. So, you know, the teaching aspect of me will never go away because of that. And I think it's Tom, it's still there in the NHL. You have to be able to teach you know, how you do it and how you d delegate and all that matters a lot, but you still have to have some the ability to teach players the value of different things that they might not otherwise see. And I don't doesn't matter you're the best team in the NHL or the worst. That that's to me is a big skill that guys need to have.

Tom Renney 14:34

Aaron Powell Was there a point in time then with you know you're working your way through the miners? Was there a point in time where you thought, I'm in control of my trajectory, I'm going the right way? Or was there something that changed where you went, I'm going for it, you know, or I'm good enough to pursue this? Was there a like a watershed moment where you went, yep, I'm going after it?

Bruce Cassidy 14:54

Aaron Powell I don't know. I mean, I think I think everybody, I mean, you read books back then too, be goal-oriented. You know, where do you want to be in three years? Where do you want to be in five years? You do think about that, but some of that's out of your control a little bit. So for example, I I leave the East Coast a year and a half later to go up to Indianapolis, where I'd come from, and it's uh it's a step higher, right? It's the IHL. So I'm one step closer to the NHL. And I'm thinking, okay, this is good. Put in some time here, and maybe your next job is an assistant in the NHL or whatnot. So of course I was thinking that. And then the team goes folds. Now it's going backwards again. So off I go back to the East Coast League. So you better be ready for some curveballs in that regard. So I went back, and that there was one thing that happened because I could have stayed at at the higher level as an assistant. And I remember asking Bob Murray and another GM that, what do you think? And they said, if you want to be a head coach, you probably should stay a head coach. So I thought I took that to heart. I said, okay, I'll go back a level and still run my own team. Because again, back then there wasn't a lot of assistance. So guys were getting promoted from the East Coast League. As I said, there was myself, there was um Peter Laviolette was in wheeling at the time, Gabby in Mississippi. So guys could get out of that league and move up. Now there's so many more assistants that to choose from. I think those are the guys that get promoted more than the guys from the lower level. So but that's what was around for me at the time. So I do remember that. So I tried to stay a head coach as much as possible and hope that I'd get the next opportunity. So and then I did in Washington. I had gone to Grand Rapids and did a good job there. And then, you know, all of a sudden I'm 37 years old and I get a call from George McPhee. Would you interview? I said, okay. He says, We're looking for an assistant coach and a head coach. I said, Okay. He said, Would you be willing to interview? I said, Absolutely. So I get permission and uh then I'm going to the interview thinking, am I? And I get there and I'm like, George, am I interviewing for the head job or the assistant job? Or both, or which, you know, you're you're preparing kind of two different answers to questions than that. So he says, no, no, the head guy. And I ended up getting a job. I'm sure it was a long shot. But so that was my initial kind of big moment. I'm a young guy in the league, and we have a good first year. We start slow the next year, and I'm gone. So now you're like, wow, maybe, maybe this is a little much for me right now. But you know, I took the positives from it and went back to work in the you know lower levels, and you know, I didn't know if I'd ever make it out of there. I probably spent 12, 14 years, whatever it was, and sure enough, I get a chance in Boston. So it ended up working out again, and I took advantage of that second opportunity. And I get a guy who will ask me that sometimes, like, what would you do? I said, just be ready. Be ready if you're gonna get your second chance to learn from what you did right and wrong the first time and and make sure that you know you feel good about it. Because there's always a little bit of doubt when you're that young and you uh I didn't have much of an NHL career, and you walk into a room with all-stars and Harrier Yeager guy that could be a future Hall of Famer. So there's a little bit of that aura around it and awe of that because I wasn't, you know, like I said, I didn't lead lead the NHL life. So it it was a little bit new to me. And you gotta run a team and be a leader of men. So there was a lot going on at the time. And I and I think with Boston, I was I was just better prepared because I was well, I was 14 years older. I've been through, you know, you go through fatherhood, different things. It just you know you you should be better prepared.

Tom Renney 18:02

Interesting. I I was fired twice and I wasn't re signed a third time. And I'm I remember my first time in Vancouver. I was first of all, I was um I was almost relieved because you know you kind of read about it, you start to get a little bit of an inkling, you start to feel in here, and and then I was mad, really mad, because I didn't think any of it was my fault. And then I got introspective and started to think about, you know, I might probably should have done a better job here, I could have been better there. Then I finally kind of broke out of that, you know, that mindset. And I'm curious to know how you dealt with that. And I know you're in a tough situation right now, which is going to improve itself pretty quickly, I would think. But how do you how do you overcome, you know, in such a volatile business like coaching, leadership in general, where you where you lose that ability and that capacity and that opportunity to lead people? How did how did you overcome those circumstances when they when they happen to you?

Bruce Cassidy 18:53

Aaron Powell Well, it's funny you say relieved because I think that's a word that people might not think of right away, and it's true. And I know in Washington we started losing, right? And I'm a young guy, and I'm, you know, like you could tell the players maybe were like, you know, hey, this he's got to get it, you know, get us going and and blah, blah, blah. Whatever. You got a lot of stuff going through your head. And I'm not a big social media guy, but there's outside noise everywhere. You're gonna hear it. And so that part, you know, I was a little relieved in Washington because I wasn't finding the answers to get this team going. Right. So almost like, you know, hey, I don't have to go to work tomorrow trying to find solutions. And it ends up the team didn't finish well anyway. So you think to yourself, okay, maybe, yeah, I take my share of the responsibility, but they have to own theirs too, right? Uh could because it wasn't an automatic turnaround. So that's one thing I remember and get get back to work. And in Boston, when I got let go, it was a quick turnaround. I interviewed with teams immediately after. So there was really not a lot of time to digest.

Tom Renney 19:47

Right.

Bruce Cassidy 19:47

You know, it was hard on my kids because they were at that age, they had a lot of school friends, and they were just about to be teenagers. So I felt worse for them. I'd spent six years there, and it's almost like, okay, I feel that I did a really good job and I shouldn't be the guy paying the price, but there's people lining up knocking on your door. So I was really fortunate that way. And I'm not saying not to be arrogant. I was just at the time, you know, I was able to take advantage of, you know, one door closing and another one opening. So now you got people that, you know, they want to talk to you. So your juices are flowing again, right? Hey, I'm I'm still, I'm gonna still be in the league. I'm gonna get another opportunity. I I might even have a choice of a team. So things like that start happening for me. The Vegas one was tough this year, uh, it was late in the year. So that's one that not relieved. I was kind of like, I just wanted the opportunity to finish the job. So I I wanted to finish it. Yeah. But you know, that's the game sometimes. You don't get to pick and choose. And and then I got over it, dealt with it, and that you know, that I felt I left the team in a good place. They were playing well in the playoffs. So I felt, okay, I did some good here. We won a cup there, and we laid down a foundation of what it looks like. So that one was a it was a lot of interest, you know. And then I got mad because I wasn't able to interview after that. Now I want to get back to work, get back in a league. You know, hey, those guys are doing their thing, they're doing well, let me do my thing and do well. And so here we are. So we'll see how that plays out. So this one, they're all a little bit different, I guess. And hopefully I don't have to go through too many more of them because uh maybe it's time to go if that's the case. But I know I want to get back in the league, get another chance to get your name in the cup. That's what I do it for, is uh to see players you know do well and to watch a a David Pasterneck grow into a superstar and you have him at 19 years old and a Brad Marshan, those guys, those are great stories to see Jack Eichel's development from a to be a well-respected 200, maybe the best 200-foot player in the game, and you like those things, but you also want to get your name on the cup. You know, that's what I would like. I'd like my legacy to be say, hey, this guy coached winners, so hopefully there's another opportunity to do that.

Tom Renney 21:43

What do you think then, Bruce, has been your your the key trait that's helped you kind of navigate this whole landscape of coaching in general, but coaching in the NHL? If there was one trait that you feel kind of that you hang your hat on, this is kind of a tough question because you've got to not You got to get personal talk about what you're good at. I don't think anybody needs to explain that. But what is that one trait that has allowed you to persevere and keep going and drive for that name on the Stanley Cup?

Bruce Cassidy 22:12

Yeah, I think it, you know, people use the word resiliency, but I think if you look at my career, I was a first-round pick. I blew out my knee playing ball hockey. It doesn't get fixed, so I get setback behind and I blew out the other one later. So my injuries kind of derail the playing. You start coaching, you have to start over. It's 14 years, I think, between NHL jobs. So to be able to hang around and say, hey, you know, you can get back there instead of maybe talking yourself out of it, you talk yourself into it. I think that's worked for me. I mean, I think I've always been a really driven, hardworking guy when it comes to the parts of the coaching, the teaching, the video work. I do a lot of my own stuff. Uh, you know, sometimes that takes away from being around the guys and communicating. So you're always trying to find that balance. And that's where I am now. That's the part that if you ask what you're good at, what do you need to get better at? Okay, delegate more, get in the room, see the players, get a sense of them more than say coming up with the solution to why our breakout isn't working. Maybe maybe, you know what I mean? Like there's a balance there. But I would think resiliency for sure, knowing that, hey, you know what, you can just dust yourself off. Let's get back at it and get to work. Because I have learned, Tom, it is a privilege and an honor to coach in the league. There's only 32 head coaching jobs. And when you're out of it, you miss it in a hurry and realize that. So I think that there's a little bit of that that goes on as well. Like it's not automatic that you know you're gonna get back there or your team's gonna win or you're gonna do well. Or you know, I was also very fortunate to have a guy like Zidano Chero and Patrice Berger on as as the two leading, you know, veteran guys when I got my second chance in Boston. Like that. I was really, I look back really lucky to have a culture in the that was already established by them. I just had to sort of tweak or redefine our identity and get us to play how what the Boston Bruins want to look like. But and I was lucky in Vegas had those, Alex Petrangelo, Alec Martinez. They had those guys in the room. And when I took over there again, it was more, hey guys, this here's how we're gonna look like when we're playing. So you're shaping identity when the culture's already there. So that was fortunate to to walk into two rooms like that. And hopefully that's a situation in the next one. Because that can, you know, listen, that that that can help a coach, you know, things go a long way when that when you have respected leaders like that, the other guys in the room are certainly gonna notice. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

Tom Renney 24:24

Is the key to unlocking that door the level of respect you show those key guys, you know, or your your players in general. Of course, we you know we respect your players, but they respect you because of your position right out of the gate for sure. Are you able to kind of reciprocate that level of respect for them where the team goes, uh, you know what? I like the way this guy handles our team.

Bruce Cassidy 24:45

You know, I I hope so. I think you always hear when guys, you know, like, oh, you know, he gets short term or whatever. I mean, I was six years in Boston. That's a pretty good run in the NHL right now to be in one spot that long. And it was almost four in Vegas, and we had won. We and both places have high, high expectations. So you're you're trying to get back there. Like, you know, we won the cup in 23. Well, this year at the start of the year, it seemed like years and years ago, you know what I mean? Because there's a lot that's happened between then, and you're trying to get back at it. So I think there's some of that goes on. And yes, you have to respect the players, whether a guy plays 10 minutes or 22 minutes. I've always felt I don't care what your paycheck looks like, as long as you be a good teammate, be a good person, and that's how you earn respect. And and you know, only they can answer that. I do challenge players, and usually the top guys are the ones that, hey, if if they get it and do it, then you know it'll trickle down. So some of those guys may feel, wow, it was a little hard at times. Others might say, no, it's exactly what we needed. That's a matter of opinion for those guys. And I think that's where I believe in myself that, yeah, if your guys are gonna play and you're gonna win, then your top guys are gonna have to make sure it looks what it's supposed to look like and they don't get off the hook all the time. Yeah. And you you know, you're kind of drilling down on the lower end guys, and because people notice that in a hurry. I've always tried to treat my top guys with, you know, g give them what they need to be successful, understand that the pressure's on them more than the other players. I get that. So they're gonna need a little bit more rope, but you know, they still have to be the guys that drive it. That's just what I believe on good teams. And so I try to get to that right away and sit down with them right away and say, here's what it's gonna look like. So let's all be on board. I'm gonna have to earn your respect and trust and and how we play. And I think to a player, I think they would say that, hey, I like the way we play. I enjoy coming to the rink. I enjoy our practices. The way we play gives us a chance to win. But we also wanna, you know, we wanna play hockey and and be react, you know, instinctive out there too. We're not all robots all the time. So I think I feel I've done a good job finding the line between that. To me, it's just make sure you communicate it to them continually. I think that's where it being a little bit older, you're like, well, I told them that a month ago. And they're like, well, we need to hear it every second day sometimes with this newer generation. So that's something you have to learn as you go along, and that's something that I gotta make sure I do a good job with in my next situation.

Tom Renney 27:04

I'm getting close to how likely is it that perfection really exists in playing hockey? Give me any level you want. But is perfection a is it really attainable?

Bruce Cassidy 27:15

No, I don't think so. I mean, there's too many good players. It's a game of mistakes, no one can make the right play every time. Like sometimes our guys will, you know, I'll go in and I'll say, listen, they got good players too. So let's not just expect to go out and you know do what we want here. So you're gonna have to, you know, play through some of the, you know, the tough ice or the situations where you're not see, you know, you can't create time and space for yourself. They have good players too. So let's just, you know, let's get back to it and give ourselves the best chance. You know, eventually the team that does does play their game better and maybe make a few less mistakes in critical areas and will work out. So no. And I think most coaches will tell you that play the perfect game one day. And I think there's times in your career where you look and go, wow, we were that's as good as we we will ever be. And and you have those games, but you also have the ones where you lose eight-nothing where you can't do anything, right? So there's both sides of the coin there. So I don't think you can ever be perfect. I don't think you should stop striving to try to be perfect. I just I think if if you're a coach and that's your your end goal, I think you're gonna bang your head against the wall trying to get there as well.

Tom Renney 28:16

Good answer. Feel the same way. So what would you tell your younger self now that you're where you are, you know, 20 years ago you were battling to, you know, to get it get it done? What would you tell your younger self now in order to prepare to pursue this?

Bruce Cassidy 28:32

Well, I would tell myself, be prepared for some ups and downs, be prepared for you know things not exactly going your way. I I think the path ends up being what it is. And some some people it's smooth and one step at a time. Other people they bounce all over the place. So make sure you don't try to, you know, define yourself when you're really young, and this is the way it has to be. I'd also tell my younger self now, like, you know, stop and enjoy it a little bit too along the way. You win a game, you win a big game, like enjoy it. Don't uh right right away roll and double who's next on the who's next on the schedule. Like maybe enjoy it a little bit. You know, I always thought I'd I I allow the players to have a good attitude in in in that regard in the in the locker room and make sure things are light when they need to be. But myself and our staff, I would say that's where as I get older I should say, you know, listen, it's there's moments you're allowed to smile. Let yourself smile and enjoy it. You don't always have to be on to the next game and challenge and get ready. You can still be prepared with while you're enjoying uh you know those those small moments.

Tom Renney 29:31

That's wisdom talking. I know that's experience talking. I was I I should have had much more fun in Vancouver and I didn't. I was trying so hard. Yeah, well that's it. I'm okay after that. I just love going to the rank myself. I had fun. Um our players did. But Vancouver, boy, I was uh I held myself hostage, Bruce, and I forgot to enjoy Yeah, it well it happens, right?

Bruce Cassidy 29:53

And someone would ask me, having fun coaching. I said, fun and coaching in the same sentence to me doesn't exist. So uh, you know, uh you're you're always like worried about the next, what's gonna happen next? How do I, you know, make sure I'm out front of it. So and now I start to think, yeah, you know what? Show the players you're having some fun. Yeah you know what I mean? Laugh a little. Yeah, it's okay. You know, as long as they see this, you know, you're you're prepared and ready to go, they'll know. They'll know, you know, which coaches are prepared and you know which ones aren't. And so I don't think that'll ever be an issue, but have a little fun along the way, you know, lighten up a little bit and enjoy it. But yeah, that's that's just my personality a little bit, but that's something that you know it'd be good to do. And as you said, it I'm sure I'm not the only guy that probably looked back and thought that you know it's probably not a bad way to go and every once in a while.

Tom Renney 30:36

Just as a life as a life skill, what's again, the the and this is my last question. Uh as a life skill, as a dad, as a husband, you know, a son, an uncle, you know, whatever, what's the greatest life skill that participation in hockey's done for you?

Bruce Cassidy 30:51

Aaron Powell I think participating in hockey is being a good teammate. So how do you be a good teammate to your family? How do you be a good teammate to your coaching staff? I think that's what hockey's done to you know for me. Like and what does that mean being a good teammate? Well, it means picking someone up when maybe things aren't going well. That means supporting them and you know, give them a pat in the back and recognize when things are going good for them and when they when they're not going good for them. So have their back in in critical moments. Uh you know, know that, let them know that, hey, you're loyal. I'm loyal, I'm I'm loyal to the family, loyal to the team, loyal to, you know, whatever the situation is. So to me, that's the biggest thing I learned. And I try to identify and you're going through your team to saying, you know, is this team together? Are they tight? Yes, they're good teammates. We're gonna be okay. Whether we're good enough in the end, well, we'll see, you know, like, but you know, if you don't have good teammates, I think you're gonna have a problem. And I would say that in any line of work, uh in your own family, if if someone's disconnected from the group, it's gonna show, right? And they put themselves first, that that's gonna create problems. So that's what I've taken from participation in hockey. And uh, I think you can apply it to probably a lot of different a lot of different areas.

Tom Renney 32:01

That's awesome. Bruce, listen, I can't thank you enough. I really appreciate it. This is this is kind of new stuff for me, and and I'm I doubt that I'll ever be real good at it, but it's certainly uh very much appreciated where guys will say, Yeah, I'll take some time with Tom and and talk about whatever we want. So you need to know how much I appreciate that and and how much I value you know what you did for your country, you know, in the Olympic Games and making yourself available the first time and actually getting a chance to to do it the second time. And and uh so thanks very much for that. And we'll look forward to staying in touch and I'll look forward to you watching you behind the bench here uh real soon.

Bruce Cassidy 32:36

Yeah, thanks for having me on, Tom. I got a lot of respect for you. So I would do it any time. I'd love to talk hockey, and you know, you've been there longer than me. So thanks again for having me and uh enjoy your summer. Where are you right now? Are you out west or yeah, I'm in Calgary. Yeah.